B.A.T. Man Behind the Vest

November 1, 2018 at 12:39 am  •  Posted in For God and Country by



A Wheels Of Grace exclusive interview


W.O.G. Dr. Patrick Nave or “Doc” as many of us call you, you are known as the therapist to many and the founder of Bikers Against Trafficking, a ministry like no other that has been used by God to change people’s lives in one of the hardest areas in the underground world of Human Trafficking.


As my brother in Christ, I have spent time with you on more than one occasion and I got to know you as my friend. This interview is not about theological matters and beliefs, although we may touch on some… This is about people getting to know the Dr. Patrick Nave they may not know so our readers can get to know The Man Behind The Vest. We can get to know more about your life and your story. Fair enough?


Doc.: Thanks Peter, it has been amazing getting to know you and Stacy.


W.O.G. So let’s get right to it. Where were you born?


Doc.: I was born in Pontiac, Michigan. Strangely enough the doctors told my mom that she was going to have twin girls. Unfortunately, she was surprised but I lovingly tell her that I must have been twice as valuable. BTW, she didn’t think that was funny. LOL


W.O.G. Where did you grow up?


Doc.: I spent the early years of my life moving quite a bit. Mostly back and forth between Missouri and Michigan.


I was born in Michigan but my parents were anything but settled. My dad was constantly cheating on my mother; he was abusive and would beat us with a horsewhip if we got out of hand. He threw knives at us, intimidated my three brothers and I as often as he could and by the age of three I had drank my first beer and a pattern of sexual molestation and abuse had entered into my life which I still struggle with even today.



My father eventually got arrested for murder back in 1974 when I was eight and he was originally charged with first degree murder but on the day his trial was to begin he pled out for 2nd degree murder and was sentenced to 20 years in prison. He was sent off to Jackson State Penitentiary in Jackson, Michigan and we went from living on a nice 80-acre farm in Ortonville, MI to living in a bedroom at my Aunt’s house and existing on welfare. My dad had been part of a biker gang at the time and spent a great deal of time selling drugs and taking care of all kind of other business like taking care of people… if you know what I mean. His case was so unique that it was featured in a book on homicide years later. He had killed three men but later on he told me that he had killed so many that it would fill up a phone book.


After serving three years of his sentence he was transferred to a medium security prison and six months later my mom and my three brothers and I helped him escape and we ended up living on the run for the next five years. We traveled all over the United States, camped in a tent in Greely, CO for a while, settled down in Las Vegas and then eventually drove to Miami, Florida where my father became one of the infamous Cocaine Cowboys of the late 70’s early 80’s. You can imagine the tension, stress and evil that was brought into our lives. We lived with drug dealers, murderers and crooked politicians and cops. It was a crazy time and I actually ended up having a godfather that was named Bud, who was a crazy old southern drug dealer from the South. When my dad first escaped we tried our best to have a normal life but being on the run, eating food that was thrown away each night from McDonald’s really gets to you; not to mention that three different times we changed our last names to hide our true identity. By the time we got to Miami I started to realize how messed up my life had become and found solace for a few years in riding my motorcycle and diving head long into track and field.


W.O.G. Tell us a little more about the young Patrick Nave. Let’s say from 13 to 18 when you became an adult. What was the kid and the teenager Patrick Nave like? Did they call you Patrick or Pat? Did you have a nickname?


Doc.: The above picture was taken when I was 16 in Miami, Florida. At that time I tried to live life with sports as the focus and was running track and field in international meets with a goal of getting to the Olympics. My motorcycle at the time was a Honda 175 Enduro and I rode it like I was Evel Knievel. Eventually my father was caught by the FBI and sent back up to Michigan where he finished out the rest of his original prison sentence. I on the other hand got into doing drugs, selling them and trying to figure out how I was going to become a hit man for organized crime. Needless to say, life became rather chaotic and in between the moments of sanity were dotted a lot of things that I would rather not remember but am thankful to God for his eternal grace.


W.O.G. Were you the same as you are today? Did you have the same interests, same passions?


Doc.: I was not the same as today. I was pure evil, full of hatred and had no empathy or compassion.


W.O.G. What about the photo below? That is a slight transformation from the man I’m looking at. When was that J?


Doc.: Strangely enough, after I ended up homeless on the streets of Miami I ended moving back to Detroit from Miami and lived with my grandmother. It was there that I learned to develop my outer shell, my mask.


I went on to barely graduate high school, went to college to study law and on the way somehow got guilted into becoming a minister. I really believed back in 1987 that God had kept me alive through many close calls and the only reason was so that I could serve Him. I was terrified of God and knew that if I did not go into ministry he would kill me. You see, God was the only one I feared more than my own father.


What you see above is a picture of a man that was struggling to keep his inner demons from eating him alive. But it was a wonderful “show.”


W.O.G. If Doc., could say something to a younger Doc. today, what would he say to him?


Doc.: It depends. At some point I would want to assure the younger me that the things that happened to me did not have to define me and that God was not some evil tyrant out to play with my mind. I also would encourage my younger self to get away from my father as soon as was humanly possible. He was pure evil and never did anything good to or for anyone.


W.O.G. Where did you go to school to become a doctor (or a therapist)?


Doc.: I went to Andrews University where I got a BA in Religion and a Masters in counseling and religion. I then later got my doctoral degree in Marriage and Family Therapy from Southern Christian University.


W.O.G. Have you had any Biblical training or been to seminary?


Doc.: I attended several different seminaries. First, The Seventh-day Adventist Theological Seminary; then Lincoln Christian Seminary and finally Luther Rice Seminary, which was Southern Baptist. I have the equivalent of a M. Divinity degree and was ordained back in 1993 after coming back from being a missionary in Japan.


W.O.G. That’s right, you have mentioned that to me before, what was that like?

Doc.: Yes, after graduating from my masters program I went over to plant a church in Japan.


W.O.G. What year was that?


Doc.: It was 1990.


W.O.G. How long were you there?


Doc.: Three years.


W.O.G. Would you do it again? Would you serve as a missionary long term?


Doc.: Not if I had that same mentality. I had no relationship with God. I was rotten to the core but felt as though I was stuck being a minister/missionary. I was afraid to do anything else so the hatred that I felt towards God and everyone for that matter ran rampant in my life. I got into pornography, battled shame and guilt and almost beat up the director of the mission one night when I became enraged at something he had said. I was simply a ticking time bomb.


W.O.G. Tell us about something that truly impacted your life, when you were in Japan.


Doc.: It was when I was in Japan that I truly understood that I had an anger problem and that I was going to erupt. Most nights I could not sleep because of my inner turmoil and I would sit up on the floor, knees to my chest rocking back and forth. I could not eat, hardly slept and hated everything about who I was and what I was doing. But I felt trapped, like it was a long prison sentence that I had to serve.


W.O.G. Pretty intense my friend! What about Diena? We have met with you and Diena several times. Who is Diena and what is her role with B.A.T.?


Doc.: Diena is my partner in life. We met years ago through a church interaction and just became friends. Then when I decided to start an addiction treatment center I asked if she would be interested in working for me. After working together for a few years we grew close and during that time we started Bikers Against Trafficking.


W.O.G. How old were you when you read the Bible for the first time?


Doc.: I was raised on the Bible. Each night my dad or grandmother read to us from Bible Story books. We were raised in church and so we went to church each weekend and were molested and beaten it seemed, daily. My dad at one time was a leader in the church and on the side he was dealing drugs and killing people. You can imagine the interesting view of God that one develops as a child with that type of combo.


W.O.G. OK, so, leader in the church and dealing drugs, inappropriate behavior with young ones and even committing murder…? Hence where the Grace of God comes in I guess, often has NOTHING to do with the church. Therefore the difference between Religion, and Relationship with God. For someone that is reading this interview and does not have a relationship with God what would you tell them about reading the Bible?


Doc.: To be honest, those early readings hounded me. When my life took its worst turn and we lived on the run for those five years I became a terrible human being and the only thing that kept me from falling off the edge were those Bible stories that kept cropping up from time to time.


They were seeds planted that in spite of everything that had happened to me, were used by God to draw me slowly back to him. Years ago I started taking the Bible seriously and so I now read through my Bible several times a year and have fallen in love with the amazing Word of God. They truly transformed my life and give me great peace today.


W.O.G. Have you ever been married?


Doc.: Yep, I was married for over 20 years. It was a relationship that started when I was in graduate school. I met a young lady who ended up being from my hometown. We dated for three weeks and then eloped in Las Vegas and eventually that relationship ended when she chose to make some decisions that were less than what they should have been. It was traumatic but even in that I could see how God allowed me strength that I never knew that I had. That relationship ended and over a year later Diena and I started dating.


W.O.G. You have a son that we have met. He is how old?


Doc.: The son you met is Michael. His nickname is “Realms” because he has a You Tube Channel where he is known as LightRealms. He is my youngest and is very involved in BAT at the ripe old age of 14. I also have two older kids. My daughter, Kylie is 25 and lives in London while attending graduate school at the University of London and my oldest son, Ricky is 22 and is a doctoral student in Math at Duke University.


W.O.G. You must be proud of your kids and what they are doing with their lives. What a dad wants… Talk about having a different upbringing from yours, thanks to you. What would you say, has been the biggest blessing being a professional therapist and in ministry at the same time?




Doc.: Having a more balanced approach to helping a person in whatever they might be facing in life. Having a theological underpinning that is combined with clinical counseling skills helps a great deal. It also teaches me great humility.


W.O.G. How does your faith and Biblical principles impact your professional career?


Doc.: That combination drives me with a sense of passion and love. I truly want to share the amazing grace of Jesus with everyone I come in contact with and I believe my call is to the edges of society. Those with the jagged edges and the scarred pasts.


W.O.G. So, let’s go a little into the sensitive part of your life. Although you are a therapist and help people all day everyday, you have a passion for survivors of human trafficking. Why?


Doc.: I have a passion about helping those who have suffered from human sex trafficking because of my own sexual abuse and trauma that happened all the way up to my late teens; my experience in having multiple clients coming to me who had been trafficked and then when I met Diena and heard how she had been trafficked by her father from the age of 3 to 17. God used those stories to launch a passion within me to eradicate this evil and to provide help for all those who have been touched by the trauma associated with it.


W.O.G. When was the first time you heard about human trafficking?


Doc.: Strangely enough, I always knew it was out there but never realized the depth of it until around six years ago when I stared helping clients who had been trafficked. I didn’t even realize that in some aspects that I was trafficked until I was a sophomore in College.


W.O.G. How did you feel?


Doc.: I felt terrible and I also felt as though if I hadn’t been ashamed of my own experiences of sexual trauma when I was a kid I might have been able to make a difference in the fight. There was a lot of guilt.


W.O.G. How long ago did you get involved with human trafficking?



Pick up our next issue for Part II of THE MAN BEHIND THE VEST exclusive interview

From Bikers Against Trafficking.



Doc.: I started making it a focus five years ago and then founded BAT three years ago with Diena.


W.O.G. And it sure makes sense, that you founded B.A.T. (Bikers Against Trafficking). You have a passion for survivors of human trafficking and love to ride, thus the result being: Bikers Against Trafficking. I can relate my brother. I had the knowledge and background in publishing, I love to ride thus the result being: Wheels Of Grace magazine.


Doc.: Yep, I have a couple of passions. First, I am passionate about Jesus. I have experienced such grace that I am in awe of His love. Second, I am passionate about my family. Third, I am passionate about making a difference in the fight between heaven and hell.


W.O.G. How many members does B.A.T. have?


Doc.: We don’t actually do membership. We do connections. We have a lot of people involved in various ways and levels. I would probably say around 100 people spread out around the United States.


W.O.G. Do you have chapters?


Doc.: We don’t do chapters. We do groups and/or affiliations. We have groups in Canada, Wisconsin and Kentucky with affiliations with groups in California, Washington, Oregon, Maine, Texas, Nebraska, the Ukraine and the Netherlands. We also work a lot with various other biker ministries and some of them wear a small support patch on the front of their vests, similar in design to the WOG patch. We also have a lot of interest in other places but to be honest with you it is getting hard to keep up and we keep asking God what He wants us to do. One group that we work with a lot is CMA and especially the Chariots of Hope Chapter in Deltona, Florida. Their President, Wayne Duprey is an incredible man of God who understands that Christ has called us to be the hands and feet of God.


W.O.G. What does it take to become a member?


Doc.: On our website under the link, “chapters/groups” there is information on starting an official group or just becoming affiliated. We also help any group get more involved in the fight in any way that we can.


W.O.G. Can someone be a member of B.A.T. and belong to another Motorcycle Ministry or riding group at the same time?


Doc.: Certainly, we partner with everyone and that is why we made the decision to never become a chapter-based club. We want to come alongside and collaborate with all groups and bikers ministries, churches, etc.


W.O.G. What if someone wants to be involved and serve with B.A.T. but cannot wear the patch. Can he or she be involved?


Doc.: Yep, we will help anyone and are open to them helping us. If they want to be part of a group and wear the back patch they have to fill out an application, go through an FBI background check and be involved with us directly.


W.O.G. What is B.A.T. in need of the most?


Doc.: God’s wisdom and more people. The job is never done. At present we are praying about what God has been trying to tell us. When we attended the Exponential Church Planting Conference in Orlando a few months ago and I really believe that God made it clear to my heart that the only reason He has not returned is because there are people that still need to know about Jesus. So in essence, human sex trafficking continues because “us” Christians are not doing His great commission and telling the world about Jesus. I believe that God is telling us to partner with each Christian church and mission, each biker church and community and to go out and make a difference while we fight this fight. We are edgy oriented missionaries who are the feet and hands of Jesus showing love and compassion to a world that is in darkness and full of evil.


W.O.G. Let’s touch a little on horsepower and chrome. What was the first bike you owned?


Doc.: A Suzuki 50 baby. Eight years old, and a clone of Evel Knievel.


W.O.G. What was the worse bike you owned? And why?


Doc.: My Honda 175. It was held together with duct tape and bailing wire and was bent in every direction. I don’t think the handle bars every actually pointed straight ahead.


W.O.G. How long have you been riding?


Doc.: My own bikes since the age of 8. My first bike accident happened at the age of 6 while on the back of my cousins motorcycle who was trying to climb up the side of a giant hill (probably the size of Mt. Everest but in Missouri) and part way up she lost control and over we went.


W.O.G. After more than 35 years of logging in all kinds of miles on two wheels for the Lord, can you share with us a little about how riding with a B.A.T. has been?


Doc.: I feel honored that Jesus spared my life and my soul so that I could be a part of a mission that seeks to show people the incredible love and grace of Jesus Christ. When I feel the wind on my face I am in awe. I feel his love and I know that I am riding for His purpose and passion.




W.O.G. Being the founder of B.A.T. what would you say was or still is the hardest thing to face?


Doc.: The job that is before us. Human Trafficking if a worldwide 150,000,000,000 (billion) dollar industry. That is 150 thousand million. There are over 27 million people being held as slaves and in the United States alone there are over 1.5 million people being used as sex slaves right this very moment. The challenge is overwhelming and there are so few willing to get their hands dirty and most are too busy to do much of anything.


W.O.G. Can you share with us about a time that life was difficult for you aside from B.A.T.? Perhaps a personal experience you are willing to share with our readers?


Doc.: My life sucked. It was one tragedy after another and there were many times I tried to chuck it all and end it. However, God always intervened. I have been shot at multiple times, had knives thrown at me, been in wrecks, had a terrible divorce, been subject to childhood sexual abuse/trauma and molestation, been beaten, had my face broken in fights and the list could go on and on. But God, often times against my will, sustained me and continued to show me his love until I collapsed into his arms. I am forever grateful.


W.O.G. And how did you get through it?


Doc.: I thought it was because of my stubborn rottenness but now I know it was God.


W.O.G. David Platt in his book “Radical: Taking Back Your Faith from the American Dream” wrote: “My biggest fear, even now, is that I will hear Jesus’ words and walk away, content to settle for less than radical obedience to Him. ” I would say that you Doc. have a made a radical decision doing what you do. Do you feel radical doing what you do?
Doc.: I feel on the edge. I had the leader of the Seminole County Human Trafficking Task Force call me up a few weeks ago and tell me that everywhere he went, he is a sheriff deputy on the FBI joint taskforce for trafficking, people came up to him and asked if he knew about us. Somehow the word about us is getting out and people are saying that we are a group that does not do politics but that gets things done.


I would say that is because we are driven with our God given purpose to get our hands dirty at all times, in all ways.


W.O.G. And the word will get out more now J. Do you ever feel like you are not doing enough?


Doc.: I feel like God is constantly stretching me beyond what I think I can handle because the job is so big.


W.O.G. What do you think you could be doing more than you are already doing?


Doc.: I constantly pray for more faith. Finances are an Achilles heel for me and I fight worry and anxiety about how I am going to make all this work financially. We don’t take anything from BAT at this time so that all the money it raises goes into the fight. At times that makes things rather lean but we don’t want people to think we are doing this for the money.


W.O.G. Do you see B.A.T. expanding beyond the U.S.? Like in Canada or in Europe?


Doc.: Yep, we are already working with groups in three countries.


W.O.G. One of the biggest mistakes many of us make when we hear the words: “human trafficking” is that, we think of it happening outside the U.S. Like in third world countries and it does. But that could not be further from the truth. Can you tell us about human trafficking in our country? Right here in the U.S.? You mentioned 1.5 million people being trafficked in the U.S. alone.


Doc.: World wide the United Nations and the US Dept. of State tell us that one in every 113 people are at risk of being trafficked. In the United States there are roughly 1.5 million sex slaves at present and the average age is somewhere in the 11 to 14 years of age. Every year 300,000 teens are forced into sexual slavery and the average life span is 7 years.


Human Sex Trafficking happens in every State, and most cities. It happens in churches, schools, clubs, police departments and pretty much in every setting that you can imagine. It is an overwhelming scourge that many just are not aware of and when they become aware simply do not know what to do.


W.O.G. How does it often happen? Can you give us a scenario that is prevalent and that you see often?


Doc.: Unfortunately, there is a lot of money that can be made by selling someone for sex. Unlike other things a person can be sold for sex multiple times and there is not a lot that the law does at present for the majority of people who get caught doing it. Primarily because the victims often are so traumatized that they cannot testify against them.


People in authority can guilt people into doing it, a lot of times someone is tricked by sending an indecent picture and then they are blackmailed. Some are drugged and then forced into it. Others are kidnapped. Statistics say that more than half of all people trafficked are being trafficked by parents or by someone the parent knows.


We work with quite a few people that their parents decided to sell them for money or drugs. When they tried to resist they were drugged, beaten or abused in additional ways where they victim had no real choice or will to resist. This is common and unfortunately, when the perpetrator is caught many don’t receive any punishment whatsoever.


I had another high school student that was picked up at the mall when a nice looking lady complimented him and said he should be a model. It was the guise of being a model that drew him in where he became vulnerable.


W.O.G. Where does it happen the most? As in what surrounding in anyone’s life?


Doc.: Unfortunately, it can happen anywhere. In Florida half of all cases involve hotels in the area. Anytime there is a large event in the area demand increases so traffickers will try to take advantage of people visiting who will do things they would never do anywhere else.


W.O.G. What can you tell the parent, the grandparent or the pastor reading this interview to watch for? What are some of the signs to watch for in order to avoid this from happening to their own family members?


Doc.: A change in behavior, poor eye contact. Secrets, bruises, tattoos that they cannot explain. A lot of times their dress style will reveal something because they start dressing more sexual. Their conversation will be more sexual. They might have an increase in finances, new clothes. An older boyfriend or girlfriend. Poor attendance at school. Drug or alcohol use can sometimes be a sign.


Now days there is a lot of things being done on the Internet so you should definitely know what your child is doing on the web. Make sure they are aware of the dangers, be aware of their activities and show a concern for them. If you suspect anything take them to a counselor. Never hesitate to do the right thing.


W.O.G. Is human trafficking as common with boys as much as it is with girls?


Doc.: It is more common for girls and women but the sale of boys and men are increasing.


W.O.G. We have met with you and Diena several times. We have heard stories that we could not believe and cannot print in Wheels Of Grace. Can you tell the parent, or the grandparent reading this interview what are some ways to prevent it from happening?


Doc.: Being aware, being loving and establishing healthy boundaries is really important. Having an active relationship with your kids or grandkids is important and being involved in their lives. That is one of the greatest things you can do.


I am a firm believer that kids need a caring, trusting adult that is not their parent to develop a relationship with to help process life. For many it can be a pastor, especially a youth pastor. If that is not available, try to find a healthy mentor but be aware of behaviors that seem fishy. And remember it can happen to anyone at anytime.


W.O.G. If you can tell something to someone that does not believe in God and is reading this interview, what would you tell them?


Doc.: I would tell them that there was a time in my life that I did not believe in God and then there was another time where I hated God because I thought he was this tyrant who played chess with people’s lives. However, that all changed when I started to understand that Jesus loved me just as I was. That Jesus was crazy about me…no strings attached. It was hard to understand that He did not want to use or manipulate me but as I got to know Jesus suddenly I started to see that I had value simply because He loved me and He died for me.


I did not deserve anything good then or anything good now but that is the point of His grace. It is not what I deserved. It is simply something that He gives to me…in spite of me. I could have never survived all I went through without Him even though I didn’t understand what all was going on. All I know is that I cannot survive anything now without Him in my life. He has brought me peace, passion and purpose and has shown me how to use all the things that happened in my life to help others. I now believe in HOPE. No matter what I have done, no matter what I may be doing or struggling with now. As long as He is with me…there is hope. And for me, as long as I have value and hope, I can get through all things, with His strength. He changed my life and I believe that without Him in your life it is going to be impossible to really change yours. Why not give him a try? I promise you, your life will never be the same.


Psalm 147:3 states that God heals the brokenhearted… He did that for me and He can do that for you.


W.O.G. If tomorrow morning, you could have members of B.A.T. anywhere in the US, where would it be? And why?


Doc.: I would like to say anywhere that God leads but selfishly I would like to build a strong presence in Texas and California. They are the number one and number two areas in the United States for human trafficking. Especially the LA area and Dallas/Houston. Florida is third. I have seen firsthand that in many communities where minorities reside the situation with trafficking is even worst because they are even tossed further down on the pile of value. I believe all of our inner cities especially need a presence.




W.O.G. What about anywhere in the world?


Doc.: A lot of the Caribbean islands are bad in this area but it is happening everywhere.


W.O.G. Can you share with us a positive story in the history of B.A.T. that really stuck with you?


Luke 14:23, “Go out to the highway and hedges and compel people to come in…”


Doc.: A while back we visited with a survivor who was a young adult who had been traumatized over a period of years. She missed a lot of her childhood and had fallen into a bad way with bad behavior. When we came across her she was having issues in every aspect of her life. Things were not going well and there did not seem to be any hope. Things reached a climax when she got into a drunken state and ended up in the behavioral hospital locked up. We visited with her and over a process of months she has turned her life around. She is finishing up her high school experience, getting ready to start college and has a great job. She has a spark in her eyes, hope in her soul and a renewed sense of identity and purpose. It has been amazing to see the smile return to her beautiful face. She now inspires others and I am so very proud of her.


W.O.G. Do you ever have doubts?


Doc.: In the beginning the task seemed so overwhelming. We started with no connections and no idea as to what God had in mind. Now I have no doubts that we are doing the work God has led us to do. The only doubts I have now is where the money is going to come from? We operate on a shoestring budget and are trying to raise enough funds to build six houses in Seminole County, Florida for human sex trafficking survivors to receive clinical trauma care and healing. There is such a need for housing and no one wants to take a survivor or at least there are very few places that want to provide help.


We want to make a difference, to give each survivor a home. A place to live for as long as they choose. A place to heal, recover and grow. Many survivors came from homes where some aspect of faith was in their life and then when they were sold they screamed out to God for deliverance and healing. It never came and so they developed an anger towards God. I find myself asking God from time to time, “Why?”


But I also know that I may never get that answer on this earth but I will do everything I can to help people heal and recover a loving faith and relationship with Jesus. There is always hope…it drives me.


W.O.G. What was the best decision you ever made?


Doc.: Trusting that I could walk away from established pastoral ministry and trusting that God would lead me to where I could make the biggest difference for Him. Leaving what I knew was not easy but becoming who I was, has been amazing.


W.O.G. What’s your most embarrassing moment you ever had? If you like to share with our readers of course.


Doc.: Believe it or not, I have only dropped my bike one time. It was early on in my relationship with Diena. We had taken a ride out into the country and had come up to this stop sign. I came to a stop at the same moment she reached out and touched my back where my shirt had flown up. It sent a jolt of electricity through me and shocked me to such an extent that I dropped the bike and over it went. I could not believe it. We both jumped off but I have never forgotten it and am pretty sure no one knows about it until just now. Thanks for that Peter.


W.O.G. That is an answer I did not expect! If you were to give one last sermon or speech, what would it be on?


Doc.: The incredible love that Jesus has for YOU.





W.O.G. Why that sermon? Why is that so important to you?


Doc.: It is the source of all that is good.


W.O.G. What’s your favorite or one of your favorites quote(s)?


Doc.: My life is continuously in his hands. My homecoming will be at his election—not a second before, and not a moment after. I die to self. Each moment I live is a breath of life given to me to live for His purpose.


W.O.G. What’s your favorite or one of your favorite Bible verse?


Doc.: Luke 14:23, “Go out to the highway and hedges and compel people to come in…”


W.O.G. In summation, B.A.T. is what?


Doc.: A group of people who are actively trying to eliminate human sex trafficking by being the hands and feet of God and bringing light, hope, renewal and healing to those who desperately need it.


W.O.G. Where would you like to see B.A.T., in the next ten years?


Doc.: I would like to see it be a light around the world that helps bring people healing, hope and renewal while at the same time shining the incredible light of Jesus into the lives of those who have been in darkness.




W.O.G. Talk about John 8:12… Now lets get into some of the more fun questions. What’s Doc’s favorite hobby?


Doc.: Riding my bike and reading.


W.O.G. What about some of your favorite TV shows or movies?


Doc.: It’s a mad, mad, mad world and The Rockford Files.


W.O.G. What magazines do you read?


Doc.: WOG of course, the CMA’s Heartbeat, magazines that are sent to us about healing from trauma and other therapy things, I subscribe to Cowboys and Indians and also get the monthly NRA magazine.


W.O.G. Back to chrome and horsepower… What is your dream bike?


Doc.: I think I am riding it, my Street Glide. I am a simple guy without a lot of bells and whistles. I like that flat black look and just enjoy being on the open road with the wind in my face.


W.O.G: What is your dream car or truck?


Doc.: Yes, it is a corvette but I drive a four-wheel drive truck.




W.O.G. What’s your favorite color?


Doc.: Probably black. Me, and Johnny Cash.


W.O.G. What’s your favorite kind of food?


Doc.: I always seem to have a hankerin’ for Mexican food. But I do love me some good corn bread and greens.


W.O.G. What’s your favorite animal?


Doc.: We have two dogs, two snakes and two bearded dragons. My favorite animal is probably a horse. I do love to ride but they are expensive.


W.O.G. Who are your heroes?


Doc.: My granny Nina, Billy Graham, George Mueller and Brennan Manning. I would also add Diena for her stubborn determination and dedication and my biker Savior, Jesus.


W.O.G. Aside from the Bible, what is your favorite book?


Doc.: “Messy Spirituality” by Michael Yaconelli and “The Return of the Prodigal Son” by Henri Nouwen.


W.O.G. I believe you have written at least one book titled: “Never Give Up”. What prompted you to write it?


Doc.: I have written a couple of books and a few years ago a publisher approached me about writing part of the story of my life. It took me eight years to write it but it was very therapeutic. I am working on the next book, which is the full story, and it should be published by the end of the year. It will be called, “SimpleHobo.”


W.O.G. What would your next book be on? Or do you have one in the works?




W.O.G. Where is your book available?


Doc.: Amazon and other such places. I have a book on Prayer titled, “Simply Prayer.” A book in German and just went on sale and “Never Give Up.”


W.O.G: German… very interesting. I have been working with a pastor friend of mine on developing Greek lessons for anyone to be able to learn Greek in one year. My friend is actually learning German to be able to read the Bible in the language Martin Luther translated it from the Greek.


How do you want to be remembered?


Doc.: As someone who was not afraid to live for Jesus, in ALL that I did and do.


W.O.G. As we close this interview, anything you would like to leave us with? A final thought?


Doc.: Many of us know about Jesus, attend church, may be part of a biker ministry or some other ministry but here is the problem: We are not raising up people who are not afraid to live for Jesus with 100% of all they are. Too many are 1% of faith. We give just a little bit to God because we don’t want to be disturbed. But please remember this. Jesus is waiting to end the suffering and evil of this world UNTIL we reach every person with the Good News of Jesus. Please get off your butt and start making an active, vibrant difference. The world needs to see believers who are sold out for Jesus. Not in what they say, not in the cool churches that we attend, not in all the cool stats and things we know… but rather in the simple way of DOING as Jesus did. The world is waiting for you. For me to start living as Jesus did, with a firm determination to tell everyone about him!




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